Some more on groupthink
I've had a couple of comments on the post I made about groupthink yesterday, that have sparked off a couple more thoughts. (Thanks to Anthony and Harry for their remarks). I certainly think I need to get hold of a copy of Janis' original book and learn some more about the subject.
In response to Harry's post, and I said this in the comments there, if there is groupthink then I may have actually listed quotes illustrating two separate (but linked) instances - one in the Bush administration and one within the British Cabinet. Blair is a link between the two groups, and they're coming to similar conclusions (in fact, as I write this, I'm considering the notion that that the Cabinet is acting as a kind of subordinate group that's using the process to come to the same conclusions as the 'superior' group - again, more reading necessary)
Anthony's comment (and he's obviously read Janis, or does a very good impression of someone who has) does mention that Janis states that groupthink doesn't inherently lead to bad decisions (and of course, the converse that bad decisions are not necessarily an indication that groupthink is occuring). Yes, it's a bad process for making decisions, but bad processes can still come out with good decisions. Obviously, though, I'm in the group that thinks they're making bad decisions. Anthony does go on to question whether it's the nature of the US Presidency to encourage groupthink, given Janis' analysis of the Bay of Pigs and the hostage rescue crisis, or if it's just because he is/was American that prompts him to use American examples. I'd think it's more likely the second reason, but added to that the fact that Janis was probably writing for an American audience so wanted examples that were easily understandable to his audience. For instance, the actions of the British and French governments during Suez could be examples, and I wouldn't be surprised to find many instances in the history of the Soviet Union, especially during the Stalin era.
Anthony has also provided a good fictional example of groupthink, in his 'Gordon Banks' timeline for soc.history.what-if. It's in Part 20, but to really understand it you'll have to read the whole thing. Which you should have done already, after my previous plugs for it.
I've had a couple of comments on the post I made about groupthink yesterday, that have sparked off a couple more thoughts. (Thanks to Anthony and Harry for their remarks). I certainly think I need to get hold of a copy of Janis' original book and learn some more about the subject.
In response to Harry's post, and I said this in the comments there, if there is groupthink then I may have actually listed quotes illustrating two separate (but linked) instances - one in the Bush administration and one within the British Cabinet. Blair is a link between the two groups, and they're coming to similar conclusions (in fact, as I write this, I'm considering the notion that that the Cabinet is acting as a kind of subordinate group that's using the process to come to the same conclusions as the 'superior' group - again, more reading necessary)
Anthony's comment (and he's obviously read Janis, or does a very good impression of someone who has) does mention that Janis states that groupthink doesn't inherently lead to bad decisions (and of course, the converse that bad decisions are not necessarily an indication that groupthink is occuring). Yes, it's a bad process for making decisions, but bad processes can still come out with good decisions. Obviously, though, I'm in the group that thinks they're making bad decisions. Anthony does go on to question whether it's the nature of the US Presidency to encourage groupthink, given Janis' analysis of the Bay of Pigs and the hostage rescue crisis, or if it's just because he is/was American that prompts him to use American examples. I'd think it's more likely the second reason, but added to that the fact that Janis was probably writing for an American audience so wanted examples that were easily understandable to his audience. For instance, the actions of the British and French governments during Suez could be examples, and I wouldn't be surprised to find many instances in the history of the Soviet Union, especially during the Stalin era.
Anthony has also provided a good fictional example of groupthink, in his 'Gordon Banks' timeline for soc.history.what-if. It's in Part 20, but to really understand it you'll have to read the whole thing. Which you should have done already, after my previous plugs for it.
Nick got away with this at 12:24 AM
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